[There are Jews who are worried about Messianic Jews, Messianiacs of one description or another. This was written to them.]
- Ethnic Jews
- Religiously Jewish
The main difference between Christians and Jews is that you believe the Messiah has yet to come and we believe he has come and will come again.
The principles of Judaism are the basic principles of Christianity. Some of you - religious Jews observe the Torah; Christians observe the main Principles of the Torah whether so-called Messianic or not.
"Matthew 22:35-40 (NIV) 35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Do you believe Jeremiah 31?
Within it are these verses 31 "The time is coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. 32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them, " declares the LORD. 33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
Question: What IS the NEW covenant?
Do you agree with all sects of Judaism? If you do not, then could you not say equally that the things you DISAGREE WITH are 'lies'?
Would you say that this is a good description of the MAIN sects of Judaism? Main Sects of Judaism
Is this a fairly accurate portrayal of Judaic sects? Judaic Sects
Were not the Zealots and Sicarii sects of Jewish believers? How about the Isunians, Karaites, Ananites, or the Malikites; and the Mishawites, Pharisees, Sadducees or Essenes, or Sabbatians, Beta Israelites or Kaballists? We will say nothing of Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, Reconstructionist and Humanistic.
In fact Christianity was considered to be a sect of Judaism until about the 4th century 300 something. I do not think Christians should go backward and become partly Jewish, but are not some of the sects of Judaism "partly" Jewish in their beliefs? The principles of Christianity are the same as the principles of Judaism. The rituals are different. One cannot say that of Islam for those who used that misguided comparison. We don't worship a different God, we just think the Messiah has come.
If you think about and study the various sects of Judaism, you may find that there is AS MUCH difference between Jews as between Jews and Christians. We who call ourselves true evangelical Christians love our Jewish heritage, we give credit to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob for preserving the principles of God given to Abraham. We also love Jewish people and respect their race as the people from where our faith came. We just listen to the teachings of a Rabbi different than yours, but who is to say that all of the Jews reading this are of the same Rabbinical belief?
Do YOU have differences? WE need to work together to spread the truth of God. WE need to make others aware of the false ideas that Islamists feed to their subjugated people, the Muslims, and give to the world. THEY are the danger! I wouldn't worry about what you call "lies", I would probably call it "differences". Does everyone have to agree in all the little rituals, beliefs, rabbinical teachings to be Jewish?
Do you have to have a Jewish mother and a Jewish father, 100% Jewish to be considered Jewish? Jews were chosen by God. True Christians recognize that and are the best friends of the state of Israel. We SHOULD NOT be fighting among ourselves. There is a whole pile of "crap" lies out there much more serious than the Messianic one you are worried about. In fact I dare say that there are some of you, who have Jewish blood running in their veins that are much less "Jewish" than others? Perhaps even than me that has none.
Who said, put 2 Jews in a room and you have 3 opinions? I am sure it was a Jewish person. I don't mean this as disrespectful, but put a Christian in that room and you may end up with 5 opinions! (:-)
However true Christians MUST recognize as I do that our "rabbi" who we believe was the promised Messiah was Jewish. I often say that I work for a Jewish carpenter. We also love the fact that we can trace our principles back to Abraham and even to Adam and Eve. We are different in rituals and some beliefs, but the bedrock is the same.
[I am not a Messianic Jew nor a Messianic Christian or a Judaic Messianic or a Judaic Christian, but I must recognize and give credit to my roots and the principles passed on through the courageous man Abraham who had NO book, no rituals to go by but just believed that God was talking to him. My question. Do you believe God is talking to you? I know he talks to me. ]
Your friend and a friend of Israel forever, Charles
PostScript: Pray for Muslims who are deliberately deceived by their leaders into believing lies. THEY are "occupied" by the beliefs that they have been taught from a child.
See Questions for Islam
COMMENTS TO ANDERS BRANDERUD
My comments to Anders Branderud who seems to believe he has a "new revelation". It would not be helpful to publish his comment so I just took the parts that needed discussion.
Written to Anders Branderud his complete comments are not included since they do not add anything to the discussion below.]
Perhaps we misunderstand each other. However there are a few points which are somewhat confusing. By the book of Moses, are you referring to the Torah? And of course the Messiah followed the Book of Moses or the Torah as he WAS Jewish. I believe it was predicted that he would fulfill many prophecies. He could not do that if he wasn't fully Jewish.
I being gentile am not required to follow it although many of the principles are the same, the details are not.
Anders: "in order to follow the Messiah today one is required to do ones utmost to practise the directives of the “books of Moses” [note 2]."
It is your right to disagree with Paul or any part of the Bible. However in so doing, you depart from the teachings of the original apostles and in fact Yeshua himself.
Paul says in 1 Timothy when warning Against False Teachers of the Law
3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer 4 nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work—which is by faith. 5 The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6 Some have wandered away from these and turned to meaningless talk.7 They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm. 8We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.
As Paul says eloquently "the law is NOT made for the righteous" Anyone can dispute the Bible but if they do they dispute what was agreed upon by the followers of Yeshua from the earliest times.
Anders: "Neither Ribi Yehoshua nor his followers started Christianity. They didn’t teach the “gospel”. They didn’t follow the ”NT”. [note 2] His followers never claimed that he was an “incarnated man-g*d” and they prayed only to the Creator."
I must ask Anders, were you there?
Then obviously you disagree with the New Testament. And that is okay if you are Jewish or want to go back to the Jewish beliefs. You make definitive statements which disagree with the teachings of Christianity from the earliest times and from the teachings of over 500, 000, 000 Christians today.
Doesn't it seem rather arrogant to claim contrary knowledge to what was written by the disciples, the earliest Christians, and all those millions today as well as all the millions from the past?
The most intelligent and spiritual minds of the ages did not receive this further revelation.
Why do you think you are so special that God would give it to you? Why do you think that you have a revelation which is contrary to all of orthodox Christianity?
"Jesus" was thought to be arrogant when he espoused a new way but then again He WAS the son of God. I am sure you do not claim to be that do you?
Of course they did not follow the NT because THEY WERE the NT.
The practices they developed came because many gentiles were becoming followers of Yeshua and they decided it was not right that they should have to practise Jewish rites since they were not Jewish.
Jesus himself indicated many times when talking to the pharisees that something new was occurring because the old way as perceived by the religious in his day were misunderstanding what God wanted.
Perhaps you might check Hebrew4Christians.com in regards to The World of the Torah and other appropriate articles on John's site.
Yeshua said these kinds of things which have always indicated to Christians that he was starting something NEW.
Oh yes the intent of the old law is there but NOT the trappings which is where the Jews of the day were confused. Paul continued his teaching with further explanations.
There are some brief passages to show you what I mean.
A New Thing
-you can't put new wine into old wineskins -Heb. 8:6
- new and better covenant
-Rom 7:12 - ... its perfection was powerless to help the sinner and bring him to her to righteousness
-Mathew 26:28, Mark 14:24, Luke 22:20, 1Cor 11:25, Heb. 9:15 go on to explain the New Covenant.
The New Covenant is placed in our hearts by the Holy Spirit as indicated in Jer. 31:33, 2Cor. 3:17 and 3:18. A more thorough discussion of this is found at Compare the Covenants www.hebrew4christians.com/Articles/Compare/compare.html
I do not expect this to convert you but if you believe in honestly evaluating those who disagree with you, then some good may arise.
May God endue you with HIS knowledge and end your confusion.
PostScript: Pray for Muslims who are deliberately deceived by their leaders into believing lies. THEY are "occupied" by the beliefs that they have been taught from a child.
See Questions for Islam
COMMENTS TO ANDERS BRANDERUD
My comments to Anders Branderud who seems to believe he has a "new revelation". It would not be helpful to publish his comment so I just took the parts that needed discussion.
Written to Anders Branderud his complete comments are not included since they do not add anything to the discussion below.]
Perhaps we misunderstand each other. However there are a few points which are somewhat confusing. By the book of Moses, are you referring to the Torah? And of course the Messiah followed the Book of Moses or the Torah as he WAS Jewish. I believe it was predicted that he would fulfill many prophecies. He could not do that if he wasn't fully Jewish.
I being gentile am not required to follow it although many of the principles are the same, the details are not.
Anders: "in order to follow the Messiah today one is required to do ones utmost to practise the directives of the “books of Moses” [note 2]."
It is your right to disagree with Paul or any part of the Bible. However in so doing, you depart from the teachings of the original apostles and in fact Yeshua himself.
Paul says in 1 Timothy when warning Against False Teachers of the Law
3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer 4 nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work—which is by faith. 5 The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6 Some have wandered away from these and turned to meaningless talk.7 They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm. 8We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.
As Paul says eloquently "the law is NOT made for the righteous" Anyone can dispute the Bible but if they do they dispute what was agreed upon by the followers of Yeshua from the earliest times.
Anders: "Neither Ribi Yehoshua nor his followers started Christianity. They didn’t teach the “gospel”. They didn’t follow the ”NT”. [note 2] His followers never claimed that he was an “incarnated man-g*d” and they prayed only to the Creator."
I must ask Anders, were you there?
Then obviously you disagree with the New Testament. And that is okay if you are Jewish or want to go back to the Jewish beliefs. You make definitive statements which disagree with the teachings of Christianity from the earliest times and from the teachings of over 500, 000, 000 Christians today.
Doesn't it seem rather arrogant to claim contrary knowledge to what was written by the disciples, the earliest Christians, and all those millions today as well as all the millions from the past?
The most intelligent and spiritual minds of the ages did not receive this further revelation.
Why do you think you are so special that God would give it to you? Why do you think that you have a revelation which is contrary to all of orthodox Christianity?
"Jesus" was thought to be arrogant when he espoused a new way but then again He WAS the son of God. I am sure you do not claim to be that do you?
Of course they did not follow the NT because THEY WERE the NT.
The practices they developed came because many gentiles were becoming followers of Yeshua and they decided it was not right that they should have to practise Jewish rites since they were not Jewish.
Jesus himself indicated many times when talking to the pharisees that something new was occurring because the old way as perceived by the religious in his day were misunderstanding what God wanted.
Perhaps you might check Hebrew4Christians.com in regards to The World of the Torah and other appropriate articles on John's site.
Yeshua said these kinds of things which have always indicated to Christians that he was starting something NEW.
Oh yes the intent of the old law is there but NOT the trappings which is where the Jews of the day were confused. Paul continued his teaching with further explanations.
There are some brief passages to show you what I mean.
A New Thing
-you can't put new wine into old wineskins -Heb. 8:6
- new and better covenant
-Rom 7:12 - ... its perfection was powerless to help the sinner and bring him to her to righteousness
-Mathew 26:28, Mark 14:24, Luke 22:20, 1Cor 11:25, Heb. 9:15 go on to explain the New Covenant.
The New Covenant is placed in our hearts by the Holy Spirit as indicated in Jer. 31:33, 2Cor. 3:17 and 3:18. A more thorough discussion of this is found at Compare the Covenants www.hebrew4christians.com/Articles/Compare/compare.html
I do not expect this to convert you but if you believe in honestly evaluating those who disagree with you, then some good may arise.
May God endue you with HIS knowledge and end your confusion.
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1 comment:
to Anders Branderud
Doesn't it seem rather arrogant to claim contrary knowledge to what was written by the disciples, the earliest Christians, and all those millions today as well as all the millions from the past?
The most intelligent and spiritual minds of the ages did not receive this further revelation.
Why do you think you are so special that God would give it to you? Why do you think that you have a revelation which is contrary to all of orthodox Christianity?
"Jesus" was thought to be arrogant when he espoused a new way but then again He WAS the son of God. I am sure you do not claim to be that do you?
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